How do you avoid rewarding for failure?

[Wildfire]

Originally Posted by Shirabaru

I would like somebody to prove me wrong, but any spanking games which sub-focused I tried have no player agency and/or unfair.

I have no advice. I'm making dom-sided game with dom scenes for winning and sub scenes for losing. And don't see any good way to make a proper sub-route except removing actual game part and making visual novel instead.

In your current game it makes it harder to make sense since story wise it's focused on a dom protagonist.
But with "into the abyss" you had plenty of times where it was the players choice depending on what they did, if you ended up spanking or getting spanked.

But what counts as player agency can be kind of subjective and some people might not feel like they have any agency with something like chose choice A or B.

But I think it might be best to imagine it as something simple like two doors leading into the same room, one where the player gets spanked and one where the player spanks someone.
Now if you want to put in a challenge for the player you need to add another door that says failure that sends to back to the now three doors.

It does make it a lot harder for the game creator since now you need two different solutions for the same challenge.
But there are ways to do that, undertale does something amazing with combat, where you can defeat your opponent by stabbing or diplomacy, change that to capturing your opponent or provoke them enough that they spank you, before your hp runs out and you flee. and you have a 3 doors battle scene.

[schmoerz]

uhm, okay, I did not read all the posts in this threat so sorry, if such ideas were already posted:

but my first thought of "how to get spanked without losing" is either to avoid spanking being a punishment... like: a maintanance-spanking or preemptive measure.
To set rules, to "keep the person in line", for an upcoming 'event' or time where mischevious behavior is kind of expected or whatever.

OR the spanking being an "amusement" or something similar to the one applying it.. I think "lurking dragon" had at least one story where it was used (not only, but also) to get rid of a headache (not for the poor girl over the knee of course). If its for practicing, fun, "the bottom just too darn cute and spankable", "just because I can" or whatever it has some tendencies to become more "cruel" or at least unfair, but its not linked to losing then.
And I once read stories (what would be working with a game, too) where 'getting spanked' was a "hobby" (chosen by the mother in that case, haha.) or collecting them in various spots and situations.

OR, similar to the "whatever"-series, to let the player do some mischief or 'fun stuff' and simply accept the spanking as a part of the consequence. In that case its still a punishment, but the character kind of calculates it or endures it and consideres its "win" worth it.

[Have419]

This is a problem that being spanked has in common with other submissive fetishes such as bondage or hypnosis. Since they're about relinquishing agency, people naturally try to fit them in as a failure state.

I feel like there are two common lines tension between the player and the game that result.

1) The player wants to see spanking, the character doesn't want to be spanked. This can end up with having to deliberately play as a moron.
2) The player wants to see spanking, the game mechanics treats it as undesirable. The gameplay flow suffers as the player loses intentionally before reloading in order to advance.

Essentially both need to be addressed. The player character needs to have motivation to be engaged in activities that may see them get spanked, and the spanking should fit into the flow rather than disrupt it.

Proposal 1: Spanked is success

A character that is into being spanked, the game is about searching for the perfect spanking. Very simple solution, if you're ok with this kind of character/scenario. Understandably not everyone is.

Giving the player character a semi-realistic upper tolerance can help maintain tension, ie getting caned to within an inch of their life is still a loss, even though getting a less severe spanking is a win.

Proposal 1b: Spanked is success II

The character has some other motivation to seek a spanking.

I'm imagining something like a dare scenario. Perhaps the character has a reputation for being a wimp amongst their peers and gets challenged to prove otherwise by provoking a disciplinarian. A good spanking, despite not being enjoyed by the character, is still a reward for success.

Proposal 2: Failure is not the end

A type of game where failing is an expected part of play. Something like a roguelike, vampire survivors or a groundhog's day scenario where the player goes in expecting to fail at least several times, and failure might even be unavoidable. This actually allows for a fully spank-avoidant character.

One example that comes to mind is a groundhog's day scenario of a character trying to avoid a spanking, perhaps when their parent comes home. In each loop they ultimately fail to avoid a spanking, but discover new information or resources to try something different in the next loop. The ending could be finally avoiding the spanking or coming to terms with deserving it.

Proposal 3: Spanked after success

The game requires 'winning' at some gameplay aspect in order to proceed, at which point the story progresses through a spanking scenario. The character is willing to risk spankings in order to accomplish some other goal.

As an example, you could have an investigation game, where you sneak into places you shouldn't be to find clues. If you fail you have to redo the level. When you do it right you advance the game, but get spanked for getting caught on the way out, or getting home late, or something similar. While both failure and success here could lead to spanking, I'd intentionally put the failure spanking 'off screen' to avoid rewarding failure.

[nickypeters]

This sounds like a brilliant game!

"As an example, you could have an investigation game, where you sneak into places you shouldn't be to find clues. If you fail you have to redo the level. When you do it right you advance the game, but get spanked for getting caught on the way out, or getting home late, or something similar. While both failure and success here could lead to spanking, I'd intentionally put the failure spanking 'off screen' to avoid rewarding failure."

So as the intrepid boy/girl detective finds a set of clues to solve the mystery, each clue comes at the cost of getting a good spanking for snooping and trespassing and breaking rules!

In my dream game, solving the mystery would give me the option of confronting the villain alone ... at which point the villain would take away the evidence and give me a sound spanking! (Others might want to confront the villain in the company of some protectors, for a more conventional win!)

[Have419]

Originally Posted by nickypeters

This sounds like a brilliant game!

"As an example, you could have an investigation game, where you sneak into places you shouldn't be to find clues. If you fail you have to redo the level. When you do it right you advance the game, but get spanked for getting caught on the way out, or getting home late, or something similar. While both failure and success here could lead to spanking, I'd intentionally put the failure spanking 'off screen' to avoid rewarding failure."

So as the intrepid boy/girl detective finds a set of clues to solve the mystery, each clue comes at the cost of getting a good spanking for snooping and trespassing and breaking rules!

In my dream game, solving the mystery would give me the option of confronting the villain alone ... at which point the villain would take away the evidence and give me a sound spanking! (Others might want to confront the villain in the company of some protectors, for a more conventional win!)

How I'd probably end it is, the protagonist confronts the villain and gets caught (and of course spanked). Make is seem like the protagonist has failed, right up until the villain finds the wire.

At this point the protagonist reveals that they had in fact called reinforcement and having delayed the villain is surrounded and trapped. What's more, being caught red-handed* and having their rant recorded means the case against them is unbreakable.



*Possibly literally red-handed if they gave the protagonist a particularly hard hand spanking.

[nickypeters]

Another great idea if you want to be scrupulous about not rewarding failure!

Maybe three endings for those who complete all the tasks:
(1) avoiding any spanking and defeating the boss villain,
(2) getting a spanking from the boss villain whilst wearing the wire so that the spanking is not a failure, or
(3) letting the boss villain win and spank you, as the culmination of the adventure for those of us who are fully submissive in game play!

[YourSon]

Reward or punishment, I prefer spanking scenes which I can repeat.

[youngstormlord]

Originally Posted by schmoerz

OR the spanking being an "amusement" or something similar to the one applying it.. I think "lurking dragon" had at least one story where it was used (not only, but also) to get rid of a headache (not for the poor girl over the knee of course). If its for practicing, fun, "the bottom just too darn cute and spankable", "just because I can" or whatever it has some tendencies to become more "cruel" or at least unfair, but its not linked to losing then.
And I once read stories (what would be working with a game, too) where 'getting spanked' was a "hobby" (chosen by the mother in that case, haha.) or collecting them in various spots and situations.

Ah yes... Lurking Dragon rejuve universe. Melody story called Swimming, when mom spanks her slightly harder just because she has a headache the whole day and Melody had a fairly good day herself. So mom spanks her almost out of spite. And the second two are Juanoneone's stories, "The champion" and "The collector" (link here https://web.archive.org/web/20190520...mley/guest.htm ) . Good stuff.

[SLWaifuLightning]

These days I found myself thinking about this topic, I really don't think there's a narrative way out that's very different from spank = punishment, I say incociently and the first thought I have, I was also thinking about narratives where the protagonist wanted the spank but it wasn't given to him easily, but in the end it fell back into the equation of spank = punishment... being quite honest, creatively speaking I think what matters is the way the situation develops to make the scene cool