Concerns About Games On Here

[aka]

I've been wanting to write this post for a while, but haven't been quite sure
how to go about it, for fear of coming across as sanctimonious, starting a flame
war or worse dissuading people from developing their own games.

So rather than posting this as criticisms for any particular game, I've decided
to post this as a general exploration of some crippling flaws that I think
many of the games here suffer from.

First, I want to emphasize that I think it's *awesome* that so many people
are posting games. I would also be heartbroken if any of our game developers
read this and decide that their game "sucks" or that they should stop or any of
that. Every game on here is imperfect, every game on here is a work in progress,
and I think every game on here as the potential to be a very fun and sexy romp.

There are two crippling flaws that crop up in many of the games I've found
on here:

1. Excessive repetition.
2. Underdeveloped spanking scenes.

# Excessive Repetition #

Almost every game is going to have some repetition. For example, CM Zero's
Peach Springs repeats events and pictures. In my own games, players may have to fight
some of the battles in my games multiple times before they beat them (or even repeat some of the story!). However,
it should still be minimized as much as possible.


CM Zero is able to
keep it bearable by having a fair variety of situations that may recur, and by
liberally sprinkling them with singleton story events. It's also really easy
to ignore the repetition (i.e. don't click on one of the event icons).

I try to
cut down on my
repetition by having the (R)estart Battle option, allowing players to try the
battle again without having to slog through the story leading up to it,
and by trying to make the battles as fast-paced as I can.

In fact, my game still has a critical repetition problem in that it is easy
(especially if RPG's aren't your thing) to pick sub-optimal stat choices that
render a boss fight exceptionally difficult/unwinnable, thereby forcing you to
replay some of the story and make different stat-altering choices.

However, some games on here are rife with _mindless_, pointless repetition, and
that is the worst kind. Going from point A to point B over and
over and over again, or selecting option A or option B over and over and over
again is _boring_. It presents no challenge, it teaches the player nothing about
the world or the people that inhabit it, and it's (probably) not going to
stimulate their nether regions. This is AnimeOTK, not AnimeSpriteWalking.

Your player's time should be _sacred_ to you. Every minute that a player spends
playing YOUR game is a minute they will never get back. It is a minute that
they have decided to dedicate to YOUR game because they hope that minute will
be enjoyable. DO NOT WASTE IT.

Every time you force the player to
interact with something, you should ask "Does this push the story forward?
Does this present a new challenge to the player? Does this stimulate their
nether regions?"

If the answer to ALL of these questions is "no" then you are WASTING YOUR
PLAYERS' time. That interaction should be removed completely, or mitigated if
it can't be removed without fundamentally changing the game.

For example, instead of forcing the player to go from point A to point B over
and over again, try having them do it ONCE to set the mood. Then add a shortcut
that allows them to skip it every other time and jump right to the good stuff.

If you have a big elaborate town that you want them to explore, then give them
a compass, or a signpost or something. The first time they visit a location,
add it to the compass so that whenever they need to go back, they just need to
make a few menu selections.

# Underdeveloped Spanking Scenes #

The other problem I have is that many of these games have underdeveloped
spanking scenes. In particular, many of the RPG maker games have scenes that
consist of barely more than a sound-effect over and over again
with a little bit of dialogue peppered throughout.

In my opinion, the holy grail of spanking scenes would consist of:

1. A well-developed lead up.
2. An image.
3. A detailed description of the spanking complete with back and forth between
the spanker and spankee.

There would also be some player interaction in at least one (or even all three)
pieces. These are spanking _games_ after all. And no, running around the map
clicking random things to see if they trigger a scene doesn't count.

I don't think sound effects are important at all. They could
perhaps add a little bit of spice to a scene, but they will never make or break
one.

Obviously, trying to nail all three is prohibitively time consuming. However, I think you can build a
good spanking scene by taking only one of these and running with it.

For example, CM Zero's spanking scenes rely primarily on pictures and
animations. There is some some leadup, but that's not really the focus at this
point. The interaction comes from the spanking minigames and
the CYOA style choices he has peppered throughout the leadups.

I try to focus on having a detailed description of the spanking with some
decent leadup. I also try to make either the leadup or the spanking interactive by giving the player CYOA-style choices.

Robin Pierce's spanking adventure gamebooks have a ton of interaction, some
good leadups, and some very well described spanking scenes (there's a reason
their work inspired me to develop Potion Wars!).

However, many of the games on here have a few quick
sentences of leadup that the player is not involved in _at all_, followed by
the same sound effects over and over again. It's all very static, very
minimalist and very _boring_.

I would suggest selecting one of the three above, and
_running_ with it. Have very elaborate, interactive leadups, even if the
spankings themselves are a bit sparse (they can always be filled in later). Or,
take your scenes and flesh them out. Add some detailed dialogue between the
spanker and spankee that shed some light on the characters. Bust out the purple
prose and describe in loving detail how the bottom wobbles, and the spankee
wiggles beneath each smack.

I do want to call out Bagool here. I think his early work (particularly the
first act of Spanquest) suffers heavily from this problem. However, as you play,
it becomes clear that he recognized it, and has been working very hard to
address it. This is especially true of his current rework of SpanQuest 2. I'm very excited about some of the mechanics he's introducing, especially the reputation system.

# Conclusion #

I hope this doesn't trigger a flame war. But it's been on my mind for a while,
and I honestly believe I'm doing the community a disservice if I don't talk
about it.

Let me reiterate, I believe that every game on here has the potential to be a
fun, sexy romp. They just all need a little bit of work, and some of them have
some flaws that, if not addressed will cripple their enjoyability.

Finally, this is all like just my opinion man. If you have different thoughts
on what makes a game fun, or a spanking scene interesting, I'd _love_ to hear
about it. I'm always looking for ways to improve my own game.

And if you disagree with me, well that's fine too. I probably won't enjoy your game, but eh you can't please everyone. Nor should you try.

[trigger411]

i love this, and it is so true. i have picked up alot of these games cause i wanted to be drawn into the game and cause i wanted too see some spanks. the rpgs while having fairly good stories too them lack in over all pay off. and the lack of images on many of them robs the player of that pay off even more. i mean granted i know that game design as a whole is a whole different beast then other arts, but a passion project should be that. enjoy it and make it enjoyable for others to play. and lots of spanks, sorry that last bits the perv in me but still more spankings

[Godspeak]

You make some good points aka.

I think it might have been one of my games that started the whole sound effect over black background with text thing that a lot of the RPG Maker games on here have, so you can blame me for that. Originally, when I made the system, I intended for it to include a picture as well, since it's relatively easy to do that in RPG Maker, but seeing as I'm not much of an artist, it got filed under TODO.

The whole idea behind it was that it would allow the player to feel like they were the one getting spanked or spanking someone instead of the character on screen. The image that shows up would have been a POV shot to emphasize this. That was the whole conceit because that's what I like in a spanking.

As it turns out, that system is really easy to do in RPG Maker and it is really easy to sub in different text to make it a whole new spanking. The core problem with RPG Maker games is that everything is so scripted, so there ends up being a lot of repetition. The way that everything from switches to event design works all push the designer towards highly scripted gameplay, which if you're making a JRPG, works quite nicely. Making a spanking game on the other hand, not so much.

All that being said, however, I think that most of the issues you bring up are due to the fact that this section of the community has only existed for a few years and has only been operating in force for less than that. I think that as time goes on and people get better at making games, we'll start to see more of these ideal games that you mention.

Later on down the line, I would like to make some tutorials for how to make spanking games in other software besides RPG Maker so that we might begin to see some variety with the games. I would actually highly encourage anyone who makes games on here to consider doing tutorials for your select software. It would really help grow the community and pull in new minds.

[32167]

On the Internet very little interactive spanking content
So any game here as a gift. Each developer does the game based on their capabilities and preferences. I also tried, but I just can not find the time to finish. So I'm always glad if someone uploads a new game, let them be similar, but each developer brings something new.

In your last game, we have one choice before spanking and then just click "next", "next", "next"
without affecting the process of spanking. This approach is also not the best.

Battle scenes can also bring problems. Passing the demo of the game from FIREBALL666, I encountered such difficult opponents that it seems that you are playing in an ordinary arcade and not in an erotic game.

Now we need to increase the quantity of games. The quantity will eventually become a quality

[Viklay]

Hah. Actually, RPG maker (don't try other progs) don't give so much ways to diversify the spanking scenes.
As you said, one of the way - includes a more detailed description of what is happening and a variety of dialogues. However, here it should be taken into account, then not everyone likes games overloaded with text (so text-based games - totally not for me).
Another way - visualization of what is happening. Good. This really could help if it included a detailed drawing of each character. I don't mean simply the status picture of "damage", but the drawing of the character's details - whether it's colors, clothes, position, even the type of their butts.. But how many people here are able to draw at the CM-Zero/Fireball66 level? And more importantly, how many people will find so much time to do this? I think the answer - is a popular black screen of most games.
But overall, I agree with you, after playing a few spanking scenes in any game, it really gets some boring..
And... Hey, don't touch Spankquest 1! Just because this's the first of its kind completed game here (it was fresh and not worn out), and it was very cool to play on regardless quality of spankings! I guess many people there (me too) decide to try rpg maker after playing this one game

[Tontomanzz]

Yeah, game design is interesting, these issue crop up even in full game professional ones.

Continuity and concequence is often cheated with, which gives a feel of railroady. You have many scripted quests and lines, but they often don't interact with each other.
If you're talking story and immersion, it's kinda odd that you can get a severe spanking from one person, then a second later start fresh with another without any spanker commenting on your bums condition. But adds in lots of complexity if you have to keep track of all that, and have it reflected in encounters and conversations. Or even introduce gameplay issues with the play constantly running off to get healed. Makes sense story wise, not good gameplay wise.
To help avoid that, lots of fetch quest, quests. Easy to make, don't interfere with each other.

But without it, even stories with many quest lines can seem railroady as all the lines play the same regardless how you do them, none ever changes the other even slightly. Just a series of railroads as opposed to a long one.

Skyrim is a lot like this, and that's about is professional as you can get. As 'open world' as it is, it's really just a bunch of scripted quests that don't effect each other. How often are you the lvl 50 DragonBorn... and you still get the 'cut me some wood' quest heh. For all the hours I've played Skyrim, done the main quest once.
Bagool's new system is combatting this and I'm eager to see how it turns out, while hoping he doesn't self destruct getting it to work heh.

There was a mod (the only mod with spanking I know), Get Stripped Again which had around 10 min of game animation done. But was a series of character animations, with choices spaced out. Basically girls attack you, take your clothes and it's your adventures after that dealing with them.
He was pondering how he could stretch the content out with it being repetative, I suggested he gamify it in Skyrim. So it changes each time you play. His response it was MUCH easier making all that custom animation... than to deal with Skyrims scripting and trying to make something that flexible .
So I have a feeling part of it is the nature of scripting, with maybe not the best engine just making it worse (as in it will never be easy).

[milf]

Flat out... Until you have a actual person that is at the professional game design level, working with professional level artists, and an group of very GOOD spanking story authors that understand how to put it in game textually, TOGETHER !!!! And willing to do this for FREE.... You will NEVER have an group of IN A PERFECT WORLD spanking games. Period! First you will need the following: Professional level computing power, actual computing skills, game design training, and natural talent to make it mix. Then this mythical being that has all the $$$$$ to get started, and pay his/her bills while making professional level games to GIVE YOU FREE, has to actually decide to pretty much dedicate his/her life to this task or it will take YEARS to have any game that is attractive, non repetitive, masturbatory worth, and FREE!...

Until that perfect person, or perfect group gets together and makes it happen,... We will just be damned glad to have ANYTHING happening at all, and the game makers learning as they create, and not losing their minds and not getting pissed off or over stressed at our selfish demands to get better and better games out. And thank god for the folks doing tutorials such as GodSpeak is doing so that those of us that were confusing ourselves now have an actual real clue as to the tunnel much less the light at the end of it....

My dream team would be Nadja, Bagool, GodSpeak, T Rugen, Circe, Mina as main design team, with AKA as editorial chief so to speak and a few of us others as writers/scriptwriters if you will... And if you wanted to add animations, there are at least 3 amazing artists on this site that would be great.... But as stated in other posts, and this one,... Getting this all together on an schedule, for free....

[SariaSong]

At the end of the day, these are all free and very niche games. So I think expectations have to be a bit measured, especially as most of the people making games on here aren't experienced game designers.

[Bagool]

While I think overall your post was well thought out, there were some points I don't think were covered accurately. I feel that you're taking a too serious of an approach to this recent addition to the site, and spanking content as a whole. Especially when the current leading software used in games is RPGmaker, a software which great games have utilized (non spanking related), but is ultimately just a hobby tool for amateur game designers and has little room for innovation unless you involve plug-ins or new scripts.

I also feel that the over saturation of rpgmaker content is influencing your opinion on this too much, as at least for me, every game on the site that I've played that hasn't used rpgmaker (Zekel's two games, CMzero's game) have been a fresh take on spanking content that has pulled me and many others in to playing. They may both have some flaws, and not capture what you feel is the critical spanking event, but they are unique. I feel that most of your points here can be applied to rpgmaker games alone, which I don't think is unfair either.

When you talk about how the creators are taking the players time to make their game, I feel this is a principle that should be more applied to AAA developers rather than hobby game makers. When I pick up a game and realize it's a waste of time or too tedious to do what I want, I don't play the game. You may take this as a typical "don't like it don't play it" argument, but there isn't much more that needs to be said in this type of environment. This isn't Steam, and it isn't even Steam greenlight. Any expectation in quality of gameplay should be immediately thrown out the window on this site, as I'm pretty confident in saying that none of the games here come from anyone with experience in game design.

As some others have said, even though there have been games on this site since the late 2000's, the scene has really only begun to develop in the last year or two. The rise in quality from "black screen with sound effect" to some of the more creative things done by Viklay has been pretty fast considering the normal speed of game design. Your comment about a lack of description in the scenes is one of your strongest points I feel. While I'm trying to do a more "show don't tell" approach, not many games (rpgmaker specifically) have those kind of descriptions. I still think Nadja's game had the best, as short lived as her game was.

As I'm sure everyone knows, there are a lot of "one and done" uploads of games which are really just demos that never get updated. It's through these examples that many people who want to make a game realize that the time dedication into making one is intense, and not a lot of people can put up with that. I myself have run into trouble with my own game's development, as now that the semester has started up, I hardly have the time to do what I want with the game. If I stuck to the same primitive format as my first game I'm sure I would have a game the size of SQ1 by now, but I'm being halted by my own desire to improve, and thus the volume of content I put out suffers. In the end, game making is a hobby like any other and it takes determination to even put something out, let alone continue working and advancing your craft over time. For a lot of people, they will get stopped at square one. All you can do is hope that more people will push past that boundary and make something great.

[SnarkFu]

Originally Posted by milf

Flat out... Until you have a actual person that is at the professional game design level, working with professional level artists, and an group of very GOOD spanking story authors that understand how to put it in game textually, TOGETHER !!!! And willing to do this for FREE.... You will NEVER have an group of IN A PERFECT WORLD spanking games. Period! First you will need the following: Professional level computing power, actual computing skills, game design training, and natural talent to make it mix. Then this mythical being that has all the $$$$$ to get started, and pay his/her bills while making professional level games to GIVE YOU FREE, has to actually decide to pretty much dedicate his/her life to this task or it will take YEARS to have any game that is attractive, non repetitive, masturbatory worth, and FREE!...

You're talking about professional level things, the biggest difference between someone who does something as a hobby and someone who does it professionally is time.

You don't need professional level computing power, the more powerful your machine the better but at minimum you want to have a machine that matches the power of the users you are targetting.

Actual computing skills are essential but anyone can learn that on their own should they actually wish to.

You don't need game design training, very, VERY few game developers have formal game design training, up until a few years ago that sort of training didn't even exist.

Art is the big one, learning that from nothing would take an absurdly long time just to create a single game.

The big issue I see with games here and in early access (which is essentially what this is) in general is that people don't realise that you aren't going to get the full game until you get the full game and you're relying on the developer to go back and do the iteration that good games actually need.

Both the developer and the user have to realise that the first pass isn't enough, you can't build a high quality game in sections from start to finish and call it done, it doesn't work. You need to be going back over the things you've already done, improving the artwork, balancing the game, adding incidentals, polishing everything up, once you've done that five or six times you might have a finished game and if you're lucky it might be good.

Assuming you have be a professional in any of these disciplines is a mistake, it's certainly no guarantee of success.