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So
I've paid to see full version yesterday so i don't know if i'm allowed to talk about it, but, i'm shocked after seeing it and i feel really bad for enjoying reading it.
So, i guess, good work.
It's always valid to explore the state of a character going through things from their negative perspective.
So there's a computer game, I won't name it for spoilers but it's a very good cod-style shooter, which asks players valid questions.
The loading screens start off saying "Press C for crouch" and "Don't quit while the save is showing"
And by the end of the game the loading screens are saying
"You've killed a lot of innocent people, you're a bad person"
"Can you remember how many people you've killed?"
"Why are you still doing this, why are you still playing?"
You do feel bad for playing but by that point you've already done it. There's nothing forcing you (me) to keep playing until the end of the game and yet you do. You've already driven the protagonist quite mad with the choices you've made. I see parallels here with an uncomfortable reader as there the material in this comic that is very common across the site... those drawings just don't say so.
One of the points of portraying abuse, especially psychological abuse like here, is precisely to shock the reader, whether it be by showing him the ugly reality of it, by holding a mirror in front of the darkest part of their fantasies, or by opening the door to enter new levels of violence, domination, or other things that usually come with it.
Part of that shock is realising that one can find the kind of power an abuser wields over its victim titilating and exciting to experience vicariously, in play or via fiction. I don't think there is anyone who doesn't enjoy having power over others, especially with no responsibilites attached. Same way I think no one really enjoys the real act of abusing beyond the fantasy, unless they are fucked in the head and probably better under lock and key. Or better yet, behing a lock with no key.
And in this no man's land is where fantasies are made.
Is the paddle in his right or left hand? First it is in his right hand, but then, it appears in his left hand.
Anyways, it's a nice manga, and perfectly shows when a spanker becomes a horrible person.
The thing that disturbs me is not the abuse itself, but the psychological manipulation and the lies. He's giving BDSM a bad name, in real BDSM the needs of the sub are totally to be taken into account. Abuse should never happen. The dom has to be extremely careful. He's doing the opposite of what he should.
"Psychological Manipulation" : Define, please. And not in some way that EVERY HUMAN INTERACTION can't be seen as abusive in some way. One can see "manipulation" everywhere.
People don't think this stuff through before they start throwing around useless bromides like "psychological manipulation is abuse". They often don't even qualify it even in the slightest by "KNOWING psychological manipulation is abuse". There are three types of suspected knowing manipulation that can be considered non-abusive by me : 1) It's for my own good. Parents have to 'manipulate' alot. 2) It benefits all people in the transaction. 3) The person I THINK is doing the Knowingly psychological manipulation is doing it for their own NEEDS not wants. Such as expressing emotion (hence the ridiculous idea that someone else's feelings and them expressing such feelings can be abusive to you is precluded) or getting something else they need to survive or for the relationship to survive. In this case, often better communication is called for.
Now before anyone accuses me not believing that this person is abusive: 1) I said INTENT MATTERS. This guy has a purely selfish intent. 2) It's easy to suss out knowing psychological maniuplation in fiction is we often get a Gods Eye view of the manipulators mind and intent. 3) Obviously other abuse is going on here. The lies for instance aren't 'little white lies' but are part of the manipulation and a way to control information. As someone upstream pointed out there is lots of violation of BDSM protocol here.
My point wasn't about this comic, but about real life. I'm not sure if its possible to have a human relationship without some manipulation going on at least unconsciously. Any known seductive behavior by either sex is 'manipulation', though lots of the sexual signalling is probably instinctual. And then there's the example of babies. Babies for instance, are cute for a reason, and they can't help their cuteness so griping about it pointless.
I think we are all aware of that, and we accepted this comic as frane of references. And as you said, here it IS abuse for said reasons.
That long tirade bringing "real life" into the mix sounds like needless polemicism, so I won't go there. You can argue this if you like. I only hope this doesn't end in people making serious IRL accusations or artists leaving to avoid bickering, like it has happened in the past.
@Niki Lets say you read a spanking comic where a teacher spanks a student and you are a teacher. Would you say that is giving teaching a bad name? Because spanking students is wrong. It's not the point of a spanking comic to make a statement about how things are done right.
I think the comic lures us into identifying with the guy. Cool guy with pretty girlfriend, experienced spanker, will introduce her to the pleasures of BDSM. Then he suddenly turns into an asshole. What if you identify with a character gives you a bad feeling.
@Yukiko spanking students isn't ineherently part of a teacher's job, it's even illegal in many countries. While consensually hurting your partner in BDSM is the norm. You can't compare the two things.
